|
|
If you have problems
adding your message, please send your message to the webmaster.
Rules of posting in
this Guestbook:
Posting in this Guestbook is a privilege not a right. We reserve to ourselves the right to exclude any messages we deem to be inappropriate.
This website is a Christian website, but Muslims are allowed to respond, provided they observe the following rules:
- They keep their discussions strictly about Islam not other religions.
- Muslims are to discuss the issues at hand, not to initiate new issues.
- Insults and abusive language are not tolerated.
- Messages must be of reasonable length and Guestbook may not be flooded with messages that express the same thought.
- URLs (web addresses) are not allowed in messages.
|
Add a message : Islam Review : Search
There are now 4268 messages in our guestbook.
<<< 1 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 427 >>>
Viewing messages 1481 to 1490. |
Peace Lover
| safeeullahshah~AT~yahoo~DOT~com |
The mistake that is being made while translating 2:106 is that people interpret ‘Ayah’ in this verse to mean a verse in the Quran.
However the word Ayah, as used in the Quran, can have one of four different meanings:
a- It could mean a miracle from God as in:
"And We supported Moses with nine profound Ayah’s (miracles)." 17:101
b- It could also mean an example for people to take heed from as in:
"And the folk of Noah, when they disbelieved the messengers, We have drowned them and set an Ayah (example) of them for all people." 25:37
c- The word ‘Ayah’ can also mean a sign as in:
"He said, ‘My Lord, give me an ‘Ayah’ (sign).’ He said, ‘Your Ayah is that you will not speak to people for three consecutive nights." 19:10
d- It could mean a verse in the Quran, as in:
"This is a book that We have sent down to you that is sacred, perhaps they will reflect on its ‘Ayat’ (verses)." 38:29
For more details please read the article named: "Lies against the Quran-Abrogation " (THE LIE OF ABROGATION)
16 January 2006 - Pakistan
Webmaster Comments:
So, what is the right translation of ayah in this verse?
For your information, every single translation that I read had it as "verse" of the Quran. Here are just 3 of them:
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?
|
|
Peace Lover
| safeeullahshah~AT~yahoo~DOT~com |
[1] Thank you for your generosity and patience. I have seen the rules. I will only argue about the issue at hand viz. Abrogation.
16 January 2006 - Pakistan
Webmaster Comments:
Oh my... Peace Lover, nice try !! I told you one of the rules is that we don't advertise "Islamic" websites. Did you get that word "Islamic?" It seems logical that this website is not an "Islamic" website. More over it is the website that the guestbook belongs too. Both website and guestbook are one unit. If I refer to the guestbook I am referring to the website in the same time. So my friend, it seems you are very persistent, and won't give up. Well, here is a solution, if you want to copy something from that article, you can copy a small quote without any reference to the website. OK? |
|
btilly
| btillybutt~AT~hotmail~DOT~com |
AARON
MORE BLACKS ARE IN WEST BECAUSE THE ARAB MUSLIMS CASTRATED 3O MILLION BLACK MEN IN THE eASTERN sLAVE TRADE AND THE ARAB MUSLIMS SEXED THE BLACK GIRLS, THUS MAKING DARKER ARABS,
Europeans didnt castrate many black men so the black race prospered.
16 January 2006 - GHETTO/USA
|
|
Paul Rantau
|
Aaron, let’s once again look closely at Al Baqarah 2: 106.
"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God hath power over all things?
You interpret the first clause of the above as ‘’We do not abrogate (verses)’. You also added ‘Any clearer?’
All I can say (and I’m sure most of the fair-minded, honest readers) is that IT IS VERY CLEAR that you try to pull a fast one here. Let’s look at the second clause as well. The second clause starts with ‘But’ this conjunction makes the sentence a conditional sentence.
It is unfortunate that the English and other translations of the Qur’an almost always stick to the original Arabic style of sentence constructions. As a result the translations are not idiomatic, that is to say that native speakers of English would not express the meaning of the sentences in this fashion.
When the above two clauses are properly and idiomatically translated into English and at the same time faithfully conveying the meaning expressed by the original sentence, one will end up with something like the following:
(a) If We abrogate Our revelations or cause them to be forgotten, We will replace them by better or similar ones.
(b) We only abrogate Our revelations or cause them to be forgotten, when We replace them with better or similar ones.
(c) Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.
(4) Whenever We abrogate our revelations or cause them to be forgotten, we always replace them with better or similar ones.
The 4 translations above faithfully and clearly convey the meaning of the original sentence and show that Allah does abrogate his own revelations. Aaron, I don’t know whether you read the tafseer of the verse concerned by well-known Islamic scholars at all. They are in agreement that verses and injunctions were abrogated by Allah to suit the situations. Some of them consider this doctrine as ‘progressive revelations’
There is of course the body of evidence, the verses that have been abrogated and replaced. Just to mention the most notable one; you will recall the verse that commands the faithfuls to face Mecca instead of Jerusalem when they do their ‘salat’ or ritual prayers.
Perhaps it is instructive that Muslims also pay attention to Al Nahl 16: 101: ‘When We change one VERSE for another (God knows what He reveals), they say: “You (Muhammad) are an impostor.” Indeed most of them have no knowledge.’ Two things I’d like to highlight (i) Here Allah clearly says that ‘when’ meaning the same as ‘whenever’ He changes his revelations, (ii) What He changes are VERSES.
PAUL
16 January 2006 - Singapore
Webmaster Comments:
The literal and exact translation of Al Baqarah 2: 106 as the Original Arabic Quran shows it is.
"Whatever a verse we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things."
So, forget about what the English version of the Quran says, here is the words of Allah in Arabic translated word for word. If you don't trust me ask your sheik. |
|
Aaron
| meh~AT~hotmail~DOT~com |
Webmaster,
"Muslims were the major slave trders in the history
of mankind, even until present time in this 21st
Century."
Yeah oki, thats why there is a greater no. of blacks
in North America and Europe than in the Middle
East, today? That's why all the coporations that was
built on the slave trade are owned by Muslims?
That's why the Oil Industry of the Middle East
requires soooo much manual labour vs. the labour
requirements of the millions of manufacturing
operations of the western countries?
That's just very silly to say.
16 January 2006 - Toronto
Webmaster Comments:
I am not trying to defend slavery in North America or the West. It was one of the biggest injustices done to human beings. But Christianity has nothing to do with it. So, let's talk about the role of Europeans (not Christians) and Arabs. Both were guilty. But Arabs were even more guilty as many of them were simply the traders that bought slaves and sold them to Europeans. Now, in this 21st Century you can not deny that Muslims are practicing slave trading against Christians and Animists in South Sudan. This in addition of killing about 2 millions of them. |
|
btilly
| btillybutt~AT~hotmail~DOT~com |
Peace Lover,
islam slandered everyone and everyone have a right to return the favor. When you all abrogate the hate and slander of us from Quran, then u can expect respect. Until then RESPECT BEGET RESPECT. YOU CAN NEVER EXPECT TO RECEIVE ANY RESPECT WHEN YOUR GOD AND HOLY BOOK OF TERROR TELLS YOU TO KILL US AND BEHEAD US AND CALL US PIGS AND APES AND CURSE BLACK PEOPLE.
AARON; ISLAM ENSLAVED BLACK IN aFRICA 700 YR BEFORE EUROPE. IN FACT ARAB MUSLIMS ENSLAVED MANY aMERICANS ALONG WITH eUROPEANS SLAVS. MUHAMMAD SAID ALLAH MADE aFRICANS BLACK TO BE SLAVES TO ARABS AND EUROPEANS. TABARI 11;11
MUHAMMAD SAID ARABS WERE THE BEST OF ALL MEN MADE BY ALLAH. wHJERE DOES THAT LEAVE ALL THE REST OF YOU NAIVE MOBOTS. I WISH TO THANK THE eUROPEANS WHO PURCHASED MY ANCESTORS FROM ARABS AND AFRICAN MUSLIMS. AMERICAN BLACK WHOP DESIRE TO BECOME EDUCATED HAVE A GOOD LIFE.
16 January 2006 - GHETTO/USA
|
|
Aaron
| meh~AT~hotmail~DOT~com |
Webmaster?
4) Insults and abusive language are not allowed.
btilly?, let me suggest english classes yet again. Insults and abusive language? :| Oki then!
16 January 2006 - Toronto
Webmaster Comments:
What is that obsession with the English language. |
|
Aaron
| meh~AT~hotmail~DOT~com |
Paul,
Verses and scriptures? Is this your BIG proof? . It is kinda umm not making too much sense.
I guess you didnt read the post that Islam recognizes the Bible as a book sent from God, so if you insist on saying Almighty Allah says he replaced a verse rather than a scripture? No one ever claimed the entire Bible was changed, IF you really examine the Bible and Qur'an youd see similiarities . so that verse says 'WE CUT OUT *VERSES*' I don't really know what youre getting at, according to your interpretation, sooooo? I can say it means it cut out verses from the Bible . or repalced it with better ones in the Qur'an? after all thats what all those Muslims were saying as you mentioned, the Qur'an replaced the Bible, the Torah or whatever and thats from what YOU are saying.
AND yet again from your own words you shed light to show Christianity was replaced by Islam, they are similiar because the Bible was sent before, then people messed it up so the Qur'an was sent, now want to lie about history? Which religion is the youngest? and logically the last? Which book references the other? LOGICALLY, I'd say Islam.
:)
Aaron.
16 January 2006 - Toronto
|
|
Peace Lover
| safeeullahshah~AT~yahoo~DOT~com |
Im sorry for misusing the word “forged”. What I meant was “tampered with my post”, “corrupted my post”, “edited my post” such that it lost its originality, meaning and objective.
By the way, forge handwriting/banknote, etc means: copy, copy fraudulently, imitate, fake, falsify, counterfeit.
Saying what I did not say would be something close to “Slander” or “Libel” to be more precise.
Please mention all the rules of the forum that are applicable to me: what I can post and what I can’t. Please be precise. Thanks
16 January 2006 - Pakistan
Webmaster Comments:
You seem to like arguing about everything and anything. Now you are arguing about the meaning of "forge." You claimed that we "forg" your posting. So, we said that we never put words in your mouth that you didn't say. This is exactly what forging means, to attribute things to you that you never said. What's wrong in that?
As for the rules of this guesbook that applys to you.
1) It is for Islamic issues only
2) No Islamic websits, would be advertised.
3) You are allowed to defend the issues at hand, not to initiate new issues.
4) Insults and abusive language are not allowed.
5) messages must be of a reasonable length |
|
Peace Lover
| safeeullahshah~AT~yahoo~DOT~com |
[1] Omg Mr. Webmaster! You don't allow me to use Biblical verses as references because you fear that problems of the Bible might be exposed that may overshadow the whole propaganda against Islam.
[2] You say that this forum is only about Islam and that I cannot write any thing about Bible. Ok, then what is this forum about? Islam? If yes, then why am I not allowed to make references to Islamic material?
[3] First, you don’t allow me to use Biblical references, then you even go to the extent of disallowing me to use Islamic reference--saying your own self that this forum is exclusive to propaganda against Islam and material only pertinent to Islam may be used. If I am not even allowed to use Islamic material as a reference then please explain as to how I should prove my point. You are not letting me have my say even that now it does not contain any Biblical references. That’s highly unfair!
[4] It seems that you have read the particular document and fear that the strong conjecture of the Abrogation Hoax might be proved wrong. Therefore, you decided to remove the NON-BIBLICAL reference from my post as well.
[5] This particular document that gives the lie to the Abrogation allegation against Quran is too lengthy to be posted on your forum. It is common sense that a link should be provided on this forum.
[6] Forgive me, but it seems that you are deliberately trying to hide the link that I posted, from many people who are misinformed.
[7] Earlier in one of your comments, you gave a reference to the Nasekh Wal Mansookh document. So only you are allowed to give references of documents on the internet? Not me? You are duct-taping my mouth! Let me have a say and see how many conjectures I prove wrong and how many opinions do I change!
Regards
16 January 2006 - Pakistan
Webmaster Comments:
Mr. Peace Lover: I stated the rules of this guestbook many times now, and you still arguing. I am starting to lose my patience with you. A website is a forum not an evidence. You can quote history reference books or an opinion of a Muslim scholar for interpretation of the Quran, but you can not advertise an Islamic website here in this Christian website. It would be like we are allowing a tool for Islamic propaganda to be advertised free in our guestbook.
By saying that the abrogation doctrine is false you in deed show that you simply don't know your religion, or you know it bur covering up for it. Still we are giving you a chance after chance to explain yourself . This is very generous of us, but to turn this forum into an Islamic propaganda tool, this will not happen. Either you accept this or leave. no more arguing, we don't have the time for it. If you continue arguing, your messages will not be posted, period. |
<<< 1 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 427 >>> |
